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|-+  Alternators and Generators
| |-+  Automotive alternators (Moderator: EBI-WPO)
| | |-+  C.E. Niehoff 1602 Dual voltage 14v @50a 28v @400a
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Author Topic: C.E. Niehoff 1602 Dual voltage 14v @50a 28v @400a  (Read 4441 times)
RJ
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« on: January 14, 2013, 07:13:02 AM »

At this point, this project is at it's part collection/design stage. Any input on suggested parts are welcome. The plan behind this setup is to have a variable or at least a stepped speed generator that will also have reclaimed heat capture. At some point I may convert my home to off grid which is part of the reason I have decided to go with an alternator setup as opposed to a conventional 60hz AC generator. At 10kw split phase inverter will be used to convert the DC voltage to 60hz 240v AC. This unit can be used to charge a large battery bank in the future, although initial plans call for just a small storage battery bank to act as a small load buffer. The prime mover will be a Lister CE two cylinder diesel engine rated at 16hp at 1200 RPM. These engines run comfortably down to the 400 RPM range and utilize a fully pressurized gear driven lubrication scheme. The power curve seems to be pretty much linear. The alternator that has been selected, mostly based on availability is a military spec C.E. Niehoff 1602 alternator. A brushless alternator that is capable of 400a at 28v. Equating to about 11kw of output, more then my prime mover is capable of producing. This will allow a good safety factor.

At this point I'm going to begin the testing phase of the alternator. I'll drive it with a small 1/2hp electric motor via belts to get an idea of how it acts at different RPMS. 

Specs on the alternator are included below.









Below are a few more documents on the alternator. Pics of the unit will follow.


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RJ
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2013, 07:21:53 AM »

Pics of the 1602, one heavy SOB. About 150lbs with the crate. I figure about 130lbs alone.

As packaged, new unit.









Cover removed.













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thomasonw
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« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2013, 08:24:53 AM »

Wow.  Now, THAT is an alternator!

I love the lifting eye-bolt in the side of the case - must come in handy  Grin
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Lloyd
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2013, 11:28:28 AM »

At this point, this project is at it's part collection/design stage. Any input on suggested parts are welcome. The plan behind this setup is to have a variable or at least a stepped speed generator that will also have reclaimed heat capture. At some point I may convert my home to off grid which is part of the reason I have decided to go with an alternator setup as opposed to a conventional 60hz AC generator. At 10kw split phase inverter will be used to convert the DC voltage to 60hz 240v AC. This unit can be used to charge a large battery bank in the future, although initial plans call for just a small storage battery bank to act as a small load buffer. The prime mover will be a Lister CE two cylinder diesel engine rated at 16hp at 1200 RPM. These engines run comfortably down to the 400 RPM range and utilize a fully pressurized gear driven lubrication scheme. The power curve seems to be pretty much linear. The alternator that has been selected, mostly based on availability is a military spec C.E. Niehoff 1602 alternator. A brushless alternator that is capable of 400a at 28v. Equating to about 11kw of output, more then my prime mover is capable of producing. This will allow a good safety factor.

At this point I'm going to begin the testing phase of the alternator. I'll drive it with a small 1/2hp electric motor via belts to get an idea of how it acts at different RPMS. 

Specs on the alternator are included below.


RJ,

Me thinks you have a poorly matched driver.

At the efficiency of the alternator at your speeds 16 hp driver, you are going to be at about 12 hp output on the alternator curve. most likely less then 7.5 KW.  Worse then that you will be at the max torque of the alternator curve, and bc you will have to belt drive this thing, all shafting and belt interfaces are going to be the weakest link. Also you are going to have to find a way to provide an additional induction cooling for the alternator, bc at the speed you will run the alternator it's internal fan cooling will not be enough.

I don't think you will be able to get enough resolution in your speed range to have a very effective control because you will be at the steepest curve of torque, hp, and amps out. The Niehoff regulator is good at driving live loads from at a stabilized battery voltage near full, but is a poor choice as a battery charger. Also your going to have to have a fall-over limiter on your load side so that loads can never exceed the 7.5 KW.

Lloyd
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JUST REMEMBER..it doesn't matter what came first, as long as you got chickens & eggs.
Semantics is for sitting around the fire drinking stumpblaster, as long as noone is belligerent.
The Devil is in the details, ignore the details, and you create the Devil's playground.
RJ
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2013, 05:04:41 AM »


RJ,

Me thinks you have a poorly matched driver.

At the efficiency of the alternator at your speeds 16 hp driver, you are going to be at about 12 hp output on the alternator curve. most likely less then 7.5 KW.  Worse then that you will be at the max torque of the alternator curve, and bc you will have to belt drive this thing, all shafting and belt interfaces are going to be the weakest link. Also you are going to have to find a way to provide an additional induction cooling for the alternator, bc at the speed you will run the alternator it's internal fan cooling will not be enough.

I don't think you will be able to get enough resolution in your speed range to have a very effective control because you will be at the steepest curve of torque, hp, and amps out. The Niehoff regulator is good at driving live loads from at a stabilized battery voltage near full, but is a poor choice as a battery charger. Also your going to have to have a fall-over limiter on your load side so that loads can never exceed the 7.5 KW.

Lloyd

Lloyd,

The alternator will be belt driven, at this point I'm thinking in the range of 3:1-5:1 Some experimenting will be in order. For example, with a 3:1 I might see a minimum of about 1800 RPM at the alt. But I would only be loading the alt at about 25% rated capacity, or 100 amps. (2.8 kw). Fully loaded the engine would ramp up to 1200 RPM and spin the alt at 3600RPM. Per the planned designed the engine will only be slowed down when load reaches a specific set point. This will allow the engine to still be loaded at a given sower set point.  No issued with using large pulleys on both the engine and alternator side. For instance I can easily work with a 6 inch pulley on the alternator and drive it right off the 24" flywheel giving me a 4:1 ratio.

Initially I have no intentions of using this to charge a large battery bank, and when/if that time does come to fruit I have no problem with switching it out to a Balmer 3 stage type regulator.


Regarding cooling, I can't say for sure if I will have issues here, given that these are mil spec alternators designed to run under the hood of a vehicle in the middle of the desert I don't think this will be a huge issue. The fan at the rear of the unit is pretty large. They are designed to run on diesel engines that don't see a ton of RPM fluctuation. I think spinning the Alt faster then it needs to will simply result excessive fan loss do to friction.

Will see how it works out, I'm pretty early in the stage of this project so if I need to change it up as I go, not a problem.



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jcyoungs76
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2014, 06:24:49 PM »

how did this build work out? im thinking about the same alternator
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4 l16 , 8 ups 300 watts homebuilt solar panels , 1 modified dr44g in progress , hopes of a 48 volt system
RJ
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2017, 04:38:23 AM »

how did this build work out? im thinking about the same alternator


Sorry for the late reply. As with so many things in life it got put on the back burner. I still have 4 of the alternators so plan on using them, either that or a PMG that I have as well. Hopefully in the next year or so I can get to it. I'm getting ready to build another house so have my hand full at the moment.

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