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| |-+  Witte diesel and gas engines (Moderator: flywheel)
| | |-+  Witte Engine Skid Base
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Author Topic: Witte Engine Skid Base  (Read 1654 times)
LowGear
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« on: January 21, 2017, 05:09:43 PM »

I have this 1200 pound plus Witte generator.  See avatar.  I'm thinking that because it runs pretty darn smooth that pouring a slab with anchor bolts is over kill.  I can't get pre-mix delivered here so concrete would take a lot of Girl Scout cookies.

The Witte is about six feet long and dimensioned lumber starts at 8 feet lengths so I would just cut the front of two 4 X 8, or 4 X 10, or 4 X 12 (s) off at 45 degrees and call that the base.  Then cut three cross members out of the same material spanning the total width - Flywheel Outside Edge to Flywheel Outside Edge.  Lastly I block those cross members in real snug with more of the same material.  Comments are solicited on:

1.   Yes or No on the concept?

B.   Which dimension of lumber?

3.  What kind of glue?

iv.  Red or Yellow Paint?

5.   In general I think......?

The skid will only be used for transporting the engine once.  From the carport out across 100 plus yards of lumpy field with a couple of turns and then into the generator pit.  (Pit is more for drama than actual description.)  I'll then level it up in a bed of "base course" or "3/4 minus" which ever they call unwashed crushed gravel in your part of the woods.

Casey

PS.  Sibling topic on this and LF site.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 12:43:42 PM by LowGear » Logged
mike90045
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2017, 11:47:26 PM »

I remember reading somewhere along the line, of using 3"x3" angle iron, laid on top of the timber, to help spread the weight and distribute it.  I'd guess at 6x6 at min.

Mounting bolts, I'd recess the head on the bottom of the timber, and up thru timber, thru the angle iron, and use the nut on the topside, where loosening could be observed.  I'd also assume the wood would compress over 6 months, and maybe not cut off access to the head, till they got re-torqued.

I would drill and bolt the blocks together, and use gorilla glue.   Not lag bolts or wood screws, but stuff like long carriage bolts, with nuts and ny-loc nut to hold that.

Of course, I'm having issues with undersized/underspec bolts, so figure out what is required and go up 2 sizes !!
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LowGear
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2017, 03:36:22 AM »

mike90045:

     Thanks for the suggestions.  Witte's are a bit different than most engine - generator sets we see on this site and LEF.  There is a cast iron base that the engine and generator are bolted to as one unit.  The base also serves as a 10 or so quart oil galley.  It's pretty neat.  Right now the two ends have large caster attached and when the engine winds up above 700 RPM I can see warping in the base.  Not a good thing.  The manual does call for a slab but I'm thinking double 4 X 10 s (if I end up going to Home Depot) would have some weight and be far more ridged than casters.  Not concrete but pretty darn good.

     Through bolts rather than lags shall be the standard.  Keeping the heads available for retorque will also be in the plans.  If lags are properly pre-drilled they are pretty good but are never in the same load capacity of through bolting.

     I'm not as quick to use gorilla as you.  It's great stuff and I've resurrected some projects with it but when sub floor adhesive is used properly you have to shred the plywood to get it off the joists.  Of course gorilla is almost too easy to clean up the next day but I've never dismantled something held together with gorilla.  There are some totally ass kicking adhesives out there that mature farm boys like myself just don't know about.

Here's my local ad; http://honolulu.craigslist.org/big/wan/5926426257.html
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Tom
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2017, 11:10:03 AM »

I don't see how wood could be used to prevent that flexing you're seeing. A concrete base or just even a concrete 4 post base will be rigid. Am I missing something?
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2017, 09:28:23 PM »

My 16hp xing dong and 10kw st head has been living on oak 4x10's lag bolted together (no glue) and capped with 4 inch heavy angle for several years.
It did season and shrink some, but I twisted the head off one of the 1/2 lag bolts with an impact trying to tighten the frame up. The bolts never moved, so I did add a couple of spreaders and tied it all together with 2 pieces of 1/2 inch allthread, but I still didn't move anything. I keep the frame oiled up and I expect it to outlive me.
But I imagine White Oak is pretty hard to come by in Paradise!!!! Shocked
Ron.
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LowGear
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2017, 12:16:44 AM »

Tom:
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Am I missing something?
    I think what you're not seeing is my damned laziness.  Hand mixing a slab that would measure 30" X 84" X 8" (minimun) would be just one Hell of a chore.  I do have an electric mixer but still bro, that's a lot of work and not cheap either.  A third of a yard may not sound like much but we are talking about $200 in Portland cement alone.Correction - Boy did I get this one wrong.  It's down to $17 a 94 pound bag or less than $50 for the whole[/fo thing.

     There is also the idea of relocating this station should I decide on a different power solution.  As I set here looking for reasons to not take your very sane observation and advice I've realized I like the aesthetics of a skid.  Here's what I replied to glort this morning over at LEF:
Quote
I like wood.  I think I may have a skid fetish as well.  Wooden skids take me back to a time before evil.  You know, before the wheel.  I never got past gas welding either.  Wood is warm, organic and traps carbon (Sorry, I couldn't resist).  I'm starting to think of a structure that has the aroma of the vardo.  https://www.google.com/search?q=vardo+gypsy+wagon&biw=1229&bih=619&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjsm5S2-9fRAhVkilQKHeruDfEQsAQIGQ  You know; a pre-wheel vardo.  Perhaps a vardo with Viking influences.  And SuperSized.
 glort and I have fun kidding each other so don't put too much meaning into the tone but this is part of what is so great about these blogs.  Thinking about solutions that wouldn't be a natural part of your world.

vdubnut62:
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I keep the frame oiled up and I expect it to outlive me.
    This is good news.  I don't have the option of Oak this side of $1000 but there is iron wood in them there tropical forests.  And Koa and teak.  But they're as proud as Oak.  What's really great about your contribution is to remember that your generator and engine are fixed to angle iron and mine has a big chuck of cast iron as a base.  I'm thinking that if you don't have an original Lister your system is not running perfectly smooth either.  I'm putting this down as a big yes it will work.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 12:56:13 AM by LowGear » Logged
LowGear
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« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2017, 12:35:32 AM »

Here's what's happening over at LEFhttp://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=7810.0
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LowGear
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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2017, 12:13:37 PM »

vdubnut62:

     I got an email response to my craigslist ad last night.  He's sawing up some iron wood.  This stuff is so dense it doesn't always float.  Now I'm hoping he isn't one of the 93 percenters that dominate craigslist.  You know - Flakes!

Happy Thoughts,

Casey
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LowGear
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2017, 12:48:48 AM »

Well the wood cutting and fitting is done.  Not the dream but not bad for me either.  The iron wood didn't pan out but I scored some 4x10 on craigslist and went to work.  I also found enough hardware in the garage and remote storage areas to put it together.  Notice the orginal base has been integrated by pulling the casters off and letting them with an additional cross member into new skids.  I'm thinking Yellow.

The wheels are for moving it and just pull out as needed.  Right now on concrete I can move it around, not easy, with a well oiled floor jack.  One step closer to Off Grid in 2020.

Casey
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 12:59:15 AM by LowGear » Logged
mobile_bob
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2017, 07:40:08 PM »

2020? 

at the rate i am going i think you will have me beat by 5 years or so!

bob g
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vdubnut62
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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 12:26:52 PM »

Way to go Casey!  I think you have that Witte by the Boo Boo Shocked
Ron
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When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny -- Thomas Jefferson
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