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SteveU.
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« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2017, 02:30:23 PM »

Yes you are coorect it was on Kauai.
My tricky brain has given me more nad more problems for years now. My once encyclopedic-memory got wettend when I fell asleep in the whirlpool tub-of-life I suspect.

Here is the article if I can gne tit to link:
https://longreads.com/2017/08/08/hard-lessons-in-living-off-the-grid/

Regards
tree-farmer Steve unruh
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 02:36:06 PM by SteveU. » Logged

"Use it up. Wear it out. Make do. Or do without."
"Trees are the Answer" to habitat, water, climate moderation, food, shelter, power, heat and light. Plant, grow, and harvest more trees. Then repeat. Trees the ultimate "no till crop". Trees THE BEST solar batteries. Now that is True sustainability.
veggie
Keep Calm and Start the Lister !
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« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2017, 08:24:31 AM »

Here's the trillion dollar problem....

The infrastructure of the entire planet is built around liquid gold (oil).
Transport, food, electricity...everything moves around in a 100 year old super infrastructure that cannot be changed in a few decades.
And any changes to that structure require vast amounts of ENERGY from the existing sources which are in decline.
Along with that comes the governmental policy changes required to override the current mega corporation bureaucracy.
Renewables and alternatives play such a small part that they don't have any momentum yet despite all the news articles and tv documentaries.
The time to change may have already passed.

WORLD ENERGY CONTRIBUTION BY TYPE...
The tiny GREY sliver along the top of this data is the SOLAR contribution to the mix.
<click picture to enlarge>

Veggie
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 08:28:38 AM by veggie » Logged

KEEP CALM....AND START THE LISTER(OID) !
Listeroid GM90 6/1 with 4kw Head
JiangDong R175
Kubota Z485, 2 cyl. Super Mini
Changfa L186F Air Cooled with 4kw Head
JiangDong 165 Air Cooled (Waiting for a project)
LowGear
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« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2017, 06:11:29 AM »

Nice article SteveU.  I thought it interesting that when talking about the cost advantages of utility solar they didn't spend much time on distribution. 

Interesting chart.  It's the constant increase coupled with the subtle change that caught my attention.  It's only two years out of date but I think I've heard that coal has stopped growing.  The United Kingdom is starting to have coal free days and China is stopping work on unfinished plants.  I learned to hate coal whilst pulling clinkers out of a furnace in Boise, Idaho one Winter.  Nasty stuff.  Change is not all bad. 
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SteveU.
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« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2017, 11:38:33 AM »

Now for contrast and comparison search up and view/read the different articles on the "Scottish island of Eigg". Claiming to be the first all alternative electrical powered island in the world.
Contrast the differences in the approaches.
On Eigg they had virtually no electrical power that the "Laird" did not divvy out supply.
Boot him out. Buy their own land ownership freedom. Make their own minimal needs power. Cooperatively.
The HI couple so all out on-your-own scared, and top-down grid seduced, allowed themselves to be green-spun to going back to grid-slaving. Personal power freedom was never in their efforts equation.
Watch the long PBS or BBC vidio version on the Eigg islander and see that most were not born there but chose to live there for the out-of-the-maddening-crowds lifestyle. Certainly Not for the weather and pizza choices.

Look on any alternative energy forums and those who factor in personal energy freedom distinctly as a primary: always DOer out perform those who talk, talk, talk,  forever-do-little's for any and all other reasons.
Why I say hurrah for you, Glort!! keep up the getting it on, man.
tree-farmer SteveU
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 11:52:06 AM by SteveU. » Logged

"Use it up. Wear it out. Make do. Or do without."
"Trees are the Answer" to habitat, water, climate moderation, food, shelter, power, heat and light. Plant, grow, and harvest more trees. Then repeat. Trees the ultimate "no till crop". Trees THE BEST solar batteries. Now that is True sustainability.
glort
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« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2017, 10:04:42 PM »

Look on any alternative energy forums and those who factor in personal energy freedom distinctly as a primary: always DOer out perform those who talk, talk, talk,  forever-do-little's for any and all other reasons.
Why I say hurrah for you, Glort!! keep up the getting it on, man.
tree-farmer SteveU

Thanks Steve.
I would like to think I am like you in being someone who calls it as it is.
I'm not biased ( other than with the sentiment and mentality) as anti green, anti renewable or anti fossil fuel.  I just like the best solution for the given problem or need and don't think there are any one size fits all answer.
To me we should use the best of what we have, not be in a gut busting hurry to change to something that is less reliable, more costly and offers no immediate benefits to what we are already doing.
 

 I have been testing a solar setup on the back lawn for months and putting a huge dent in my power bills with it.  Got the first array up on the shed roof yesterday evening in the fading light.  Wired it up this morning and will work on getting the next lot up there this evening.  Of course it's a cloudy, overcast day today so I can't lean on it but it's working as it should so far. I have put up a 5kw inverter over the 2x2 Kw's I was using so hope for a bit better efficiency there.

I think solar should be on every roof but I don't believe it ( or wind) is a replacement for fossil grid power. As a REDUCER of grid power, be that coal/ nuke/ gas, whatever non green generation, it works real well but it's NOT something a grid should be based on. NO renewable is atm because they simply do not have the stability of the traditional generators.  Here the  gubbermints have been hell bent on literally blowing up coal fired stations till they got a huge wake up call with a state going out completely, TWICE, and then dire warning from their own experts there was a massive shortage of power that could collapse power to the majority of the population.  The great solution was to replace the coal generation with diesel. It's effing insane the stupidity of these greenwashed whingers that want everything green today rather than be happy to offset where it can be done and save where possible till a proper solution is developed.

We have the big BS Tesla battery gone online a few days ago.
"Built in 100 Days"  Yeah, my arse! They were working on it 80 days before they started the clock and then had the green washed audacity to claim it was completed ahead of schedule.
Yeah, I'm going to set a new lap record at nurburgring on a motor scooter, you just can't start the clock till I'm coming onto the home straight but it will be a great victory for motor scooters power and performance!  Roll Eyes
Much is made of the fact the battery will power 30,000 homes in that state.  For an hour.  What about the other 600,000 homes in that state? what are they going to do? And the businesses, and industry. And public facilities like hospitals and schools and...... But don't listen to me, I'm just an old dinosaur that thinks in this modern day and age we should be able to have the lights on when we want them on and I don't tow the greenwashed line.  Could have built a new Tech clean coal power station for that which would power a lot more homes 24/7 in virtual perpetuity for similar money and got a lot better value from it.

I want to supplement my Solar power ( still grid connected) with my diesel engines.  They will burn Veg oil not because I want to save the planet, but because it's free fuel I can get and use with a bit of effort put in to condition it. If I come across waste engine oil, I'll burn that too.  The emissions argument on that is now gone with the gubbermint having to burn Diesel for power generation after taking out all the coal fired plants. It's always going to be a lot better for me to produce my own power locally than to have it produced 300-3000 Km away and transmitted. I have got a whole bunch of engines, the gen heads have not been easy to come across though so I plan to import a couple ( at least) from China next year and set them up. I'd like to be self sufficient  if need be in a blackout and I don't want batteries at this point with the solar ( although I might get a couple of cheap deep cycles and run with my 2KW inverters for daytime/ solar fed use in the meantime) so a veg fed generator is the best and cheapest option for me.

But that's where it all goes pear shaped.
Big biz and gubbermints are only green as far as there is a buck ( and a vote) in it. If everyone put panels on their home and factory roof, they would be greatly reducing the amount of power coming from the far off power plants and they would loose revenue. That's why in reality it's lip service to practical solutions and a lot of razzmatazz to the profitable ones.... no matter how green and reliable they are NOT.

Green is all trendy and well but these people need to stop treating it like a cult religion everyone has to follow and start looking at it from a practical and real  POV.
If you can build a solar farm and it will run your bit of the grid 5 days a week and you can have the coal plant idling from 9am to 4PM before you ramp it up and save XXXX tons of coal a week, great! Be happy with that and the benefits of both worlds it offers. Just don't become obsessed that it HAS to be all green and bust a gut to get rid of everything that's not and find that the ideals can't meet the real and practical demand...... as they keep doing here.
Use green tech where you can, mix it with the old reliable and be happy with the savings in your chosen poison you make and the reduction thereof.

I'm going to make my own Power how and when I can.  When I can't, I'll fall back to the grid and wherever the power comes from. The aim is to keep the juice flowing as reliable and cheaply as possible, not to become obsessed with some religion and belief that ultimately is completely pointless.
For those that will arc up at that statement, Show me one green initiative and tell me as a percent of the worlds total, what improvement that made in emissions/ air quality/ water cleanliness or anything else in the world.  
Don't give me the  " xxx tons of co2" which is as meaningless as 30,000 homes out of 630,000, I want to know how many percent of the air etc quality of the world was improved.  Saying " This saves 10,000 ton of co2 sounds impressive till you realise the boffins say there is 40 Billion ton a year released into the atmosphere.  The amount that is human made and that which is naturally occurring is up for debate as well.

Our own resident Chief green biased scientist  has admitted, If Australia had  ZERO carbon emissions, it would make not one bit of difference to the world air quality.
So someone tell me why we are blowing up coal power stations and spending $50 mill on a BS battery to power 1/12th of one minor states homes ( forget business and everything else) for an hour??
And that's just a fraction of the obsession.

 I am not interested in saving a watt of power, a drop of water or a gram of co2.  I'll run My AC when I want, keep my incandescent lights where I want and generate the power with my panels and engines to offset 90+ plus of the cost of it.
I'll drive my 3 Ton 4wd everywhere I want on Veg oil and I'll water the garden to grow my veggies and keep the grass green from my rain water tanks.
I'll bet I outdo the majority of the save the world types with what I do every day not because I believe in their cult, but because it saves me money and lets me have some self sufficiency and independence and I don't need to go without or economise on a thing.

I have asked the " What percentage will the worlds air quality improve by doin XZY?" question at least 50 times over the years on forums and not one person has been able to give me a figure yet which proves to me busting a gut to be green while compromising our power supply and costing families quality and enjoyment of their lives is all a big con by gubbermints and big biz making billions from it and keeping our attention diverted from the real problems in the world.

/ rant, still got 18 more panels to haul up on the shed roof and connect!  Cost of running the AC in the heat to keep the house comfy and all those Christmas lights has to be offset somehow!  :0)
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LowGear
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« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2017, 11:53:27 PM »

Quote
And that's just a fraction of the obsession.
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SteveU.
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« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2017, 01:27:44 PM »

Nicely written and well said glort.
And your clear graphic and explanation is also very true Mr Veggie. Energy source changes takes place over time  as the previous primary slowly petters-out and the equipment's purposed designed for that previous primary source are worn out and replaced. Far, far too expensive and impractical to force rapid changes.

Unfortunately the typical Green is not a logical rational practical person. Emotional. Strident. Loud. "Activist" means antagonistic. Disruptive.
Since they do not read/research past what validates their adopted notions they cannot be bothered to change viewpoints.
Just like all of the new-convert-believer fanatics for the last 2-3000 years.
So-o-o-o convinced that their new-found adopted Beliefs are so, so, damn good, important, that ALL should be forced to adopt then too.

As not rational people you will save a lot of breath and personal time-energy to just adopt a short local relevant to your culture retort:
xxxx-you Green!!
xxx-you Green!!
Then go about your way . . . doing it your way anyhow.

Hey, your typical modern day Green makes themselves very sheeple wired-in, corded-in, gridded-in, socially-connected, power dependent.
Find their plug. And unplug it. (hint: in democracies that is the vote)
The electric forced air stops pumping up the yard ornament dummy and it collapses onto itself. Hollow. Windbag. No substance. No capabilities. Nothing to fear there.
tree-farmer Steve unruh
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 01:38:10 PM by SteveU. » Logged

"Use it up. Wear it out. Make do. Or do without."
"Trees are the Answer" to habitat, water, climate moderation, food, shelter, power, heat and light. Plant, grow, and harvest more trees. Then repeat. Trees the ultimate "no till crop". Trees THE BEST solar batteries. Now that is True sustainability.
LowGear
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« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2017, 11:32:49 AM »

Just a quick word from a greenie.

I know I'm a greenie.  I wonder who these people are that seem to be lumped into my posse?  I wonder why my few credentials push me in with those other "Peoples" groups that sound so tweetie to me?  Or is it Twinky?

We have no kids so I'm not saying the planet for my sperm donations.  I just like to leave the campsite better than when I arrived.  We enjoy the good life that non renewable energy sources have and are providing for us but we want a better, more planet compatible solution for the future.  Don't you?

Obesity is not the only reason that the US spends over 1/5 of its GNP on health (really should be called sickness) programs.  We all need to come to terms with the fake news that has been around since Nero was told the fires were celebrations of his fearless and wise leadershipness.  Shall we never have another visionary leader such as Nero again?
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mobile_bob
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« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2017, 06:28:11 PM »

" I just like to leave the campsite better than when I arrived. "

boy that sure struck a chord with me!

i have been using that one now for the last couple years, trying as i might to break down the dysfunctional culture of the small community that i have been re-elected as mayor of.

i watch the news, like most folks, at least as much as i can stand of it...

and i am left with this conclusion... or rather question

(i know i digress and this has nothing to do with cummins or any engine, beit diesel or frog fart fueled)

its been quite a while since you all have been subjected to one of my tirades, so just suck it up buttercup! Smiley

so here goes...

what the hell has happened to this country?
to this state?  to this county? to this town? to a good portion of folks around us?

what the hell has happened to us?

when did we either as a group or as individuals become so damned self centered, self absorbed, ego-centric, center of the universe and the hell with everything and everyone else... that is if it doesn't directly benefit "me"?

we have congressmen that will not vote on a bill unless they get their slice of pork for some special interest group back in their district... even if it is to the detriment of 99% of the rest of the country.

we have business owners that will not stand up to anyone over anything (even though they know it would be right to do so) owing to fear of losing an account... even when they know that this makes them complicit with the problem child.

we have in our town, as i expect just about everywhere else, differing groups that refuse to help or support each others volunteer efforts... even when faced with such low numbers that it is near impossible to get individual projects done, which is a detriment to the rest of the town.

its like we are one of the largest, most dysfunctional families on the planet!  much like a family of boys that seem to enjoy beating the brains out of each other, belittling, driving down to the lowest common denominator... all the while complaining of the plight we find ourselves in... heaven knows it can't possibly be our fault, now can it?

so where is bob going with all this?

hell i don't know!  at least not for sure, but i am starting to come full circle yet again in my life...

i came close to dropping out offgrid 7 years ago, but decided it would be easier and cheaper just to buy this place in town...
heck, it is already built, has all the utilities connected and ready to go... cheap enough to buy... seemed like the right thing to do...   ya right!

i find myself awake to the wee hours, going over my offgrid plan, one which i had developed, collected all the necessary bits and pieces to make a reality, including the acreage (all of which i still have btw, you guys know how it is, we collect, stuff follows us home, Thoreau had it right)...

not sure the wife is up for this, but i think it is way past time to go back, dust off the plan, rescale to fit my current needs, and those going forward and get 'er done.

besides i think i would then have more time to spend with like minded folks (present company exclusive) and if the rest of the world is intent on continuing to  spiral down into a collective pit of squabbling despair?  who am i to stop them?

at least i can honestly say i tried! much more than the average bear around these parts.

maybe they enjoy it?  i am beginning to think that is a real possibility.

just got to figure out if i can muster enough physical capability to erect a sub 500ft structure.

ok, i feel better now...

thanks guys  Smiley

bob g
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Tom
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« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2017, 07:56:25 PM »

Good to hear from you Bob, congrats on the re-election. I fully understand the frustrations of politics as I've been leading a movement to split California. Also glad to hear you're well enough to be thinking of going off grid. Being off-grid for 10 years now has been great and going back on has not been considered.
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glort
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« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2017, 03:32:14 AM »

I know I'm a greenie.  I wonder who these people are that seem to be lumped into my posse?  I wonder why my few credentials push me in with those other "Peoples" groups that sound so tweetie to me?  Or is it Twinky?

Well your constant smart arse comments at those with differing views without putting forward any points or ideas to support your position sure don't help!

In all honesty, the greens/ leftists have a VERY predictable attitude to things they disagree with it and you follow that line pretty well.

You don't like my rants, Fine. pick them to pieces with some valid perspective to make me think and reevaluate my position and open my eyes.  I'm all for that. I like to learn and be enlightened and see things from a different perspective. Cheap shots don't go real far to a persons credibility with me. Make some VALID and creditable points to challenge what I say and I'll respect a person a whole lot more even if they are on the opposite end of the scale to what I think.

Quote
  We enjoy the good life that non renewable energy sources have and are providing for us but we want a better, more planet compatible solution for the future.  Don't you?

Sure I do but what I don't want is the endless  green BS and shoving it down my throat every way I turn like the green cult is perfect which we know it's not.  The whole green thing is so over sold it's not funny and simple rudimentary research shows the gaping holes in the story.
I want real facts and solution's not 90% fairy tales.   
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glort
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« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2017, 03:43:55 AM »


what the hell has happened to this country?
to this state?  to this county? to this town? to a good portion of folks around us?


Sorry Bob, I think your vision is a bit ear sighted.

It should be" What's happened to the world?"   Undecided

Other than that, Well said mate.
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LowGear
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« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2017, 11:21:09 AM »

Oops.  I phased out again.

Nice to hear from you again.
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mike90045
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« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2017, 12:44:24 AM »

just got to figure out if i can muster enough physical capability to erect a sub 500ft structure.

Erecting a small house is easy.  Living in one is quite a style change.
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mobile_bob
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« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2017, 07:06:12 PM »

i did a stint of a couple years in a 215 sq/ft studio apt, or flat, or tiny space back in '01-'03 or so...

for the first 30 days it took a bit to get used to, but after that i got right down homey... my wife even lived with me there
for about a year before we got married.

since moving back to kansas and buying this place, which is basically a 2 story with 750 sq/ft on each floor.... and we live on the upper floor as i have not gotten around to remodeling the lower floor as of yet.

so i think 500 sq/ft is doable for the two of us,  although i am sure i need about 10x that for storage of all the iron one collects thinking he has to have it. .

the next 6 months is going to tell me what i need to do, as i have two new councilmembers that i hand picked, promoted and got elected along with myself... so i have 3 or 4 council members that are up for the agenda i am putting forward.

and it is one hell of an agenda if i say so myself... if we accomplish half of it in the next 2 years it will be the most change this town has seen in the last century.... lots of folks are going to be pissed, but...

more will be quite pleased to see the ship turn about.

so if the ship starts to turn the right direction in the upcoming months maybe my attitude will improve, otherwise?  we shall see...

gotta have a plan B, don't we?

bob g
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